Eruvin 33B
At the end of daf33, R' Yirmiya says that someone who's shevisa is in the Reshus Harabim at the foot of a tree and who's Eruv is in the basket attached to the tree above ten tefachim, the Eruv is valid since he can lower the basket below ten tefachim it is considered accesible Bein Hashmashos. Rav bar Sheva asks from an Eruv placed on Erev Yom Tov. Since a person can transport the Eruv from his house to his Makom Shevisah during Bein Hashmashos of Erev Y"T, why does the Mishna require him to actually place it in his Makom shevisa, according to R' Yirmiya the fact that he can transport it Bein Hashmashom to his Makom Shevisa should suffice to deem the Eruv accessible, and, therefore valid.
Why does the Gemarah feel that R' Yirmiya is more exposed to such a question than the original case of our Mishna (32B) which allowed an Eruv in a Reshus Harabim placed four+ Amos along the tree from your Makom Shevisa at the foot of the tree. In that case (as explained in accordance with Rava) the Eruv was valid since during Bein Hashmashos he can take the Eruv less than four amos at a time through the Reshus Harabim to his Makom Shevisa it was considered accessible Bein Hashmashos. Can't you ask just as well on the original case of the Mishna, that according to its logic, on Eruv Y"T it shouldn't be necessary to transport the Eruv to your Makom Shevisa, rather telepathically viewing your Eruv (which is sitting in your house) as transported to your Makom Shevisa should suffice?
In short, Why are we picking on R' Yirmiya?
(In Baba Basra R' Yirmiya was expelled from the B"M for asking about a bird who had one foot on one side of the line and one foot on the other. Maybe the Gemarah was telling R' Yirmiya to be careful, his P'Shat is crossing the line!-feel free to omit this comment)
posted by Anonymous @ 9:37 AM
7 Comments:
could you explain some of the terms...shevisa etc
In that case you couldn't have stayed home and telepathically viewed the eruv as being in the makov shevisa because you wanted your makom shevisa to be in a reshus harabim. So you couldn't have gotten it there on Shabbos. The only way we telepathically do stuff is if you could theoretically have done it on Shabbos.
To the person who asked that terms be defined. In general this blog is geared towards people who are learning daf yomi. Everyone is certainly welcome to read and comment but the assumption is that people reading will understand common terms used in the gemara. I realize that sometimes the terms can be hard to understand but the problem is that the posters don't dedicate a lot of time to the blog and it will become too much work if we translate all the terms. Sorry.
Makom Shevisa is the place you intend to "rest" in terms of Eruv Techumin. You have two thousand amos from your Makom Shevisa to travel on Shabbos, assuming you correctly placed your Eruv in (or accessible to) your Makom Shevisa. See Artscroll intro to this Perek and Mesechta.
Ignore my first comment. I misunderstood the question. Let me think about the question again.
Perhaps this is pshat:
To acquire a shevisa requires that your eruv be accessible there. Because the key time you need to acquire the shevia is bain hashmashos, we can take advantage of Rebbe's principal, that shvusim aren't prohibited, so you can do things like go less than 4 amos at a time, or carry from a karmelis to r"hr.
When the mishna says the base of the tree is a fine shevisa, it's because the eruv in its branches is perfectly accessible - carrying less than 4 amos at a time is a permitted method, and there's no issue of hotzaah from reshus hayachid to rh"r. Rav Yirmiyah goes further, however. In his case, removing from the basket would be hotzaah from reshus hayachid to r"hr - after the all the basket is 4x4 at a height of 10. Rav Yirmiyah's heter is based on the fact that you can "convert" the reshus hayachid into a karmiles by tipping it, thus rendering it accessible. Note, however, that there is no requirement that you actually DO tip it, or that you are even there to tip it bein hashmashos. Just the "potential" to take some action which would "make" it accessible is enough. Well, if an eruv is good even when it's not accessible, but could be "made" accessible - then why transport it there at all!
- Sholom F.
I'm still trying to figure out the answer to your original question.
I just want to address the last question in the last comment:
"You seem to understand R' Yirmiya allowing (theoretically) the basket to be lowered even though such a maneuver would be Hotzaah D'Oraisa. Is it?"
I don't think that's true at all. He is not saying that theoretically you can lower the basket but that you could tilt the basket. There is definitely no isure d'oraisa in the case of tilting.
I'm not yet giving up on your original question.
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